avatarRegeneration Manifesto: Pt 3, 14.9.2011 © Welkin

The 2011 Regeneration Manifesto: Part 3, Structure the Season
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The 2011 Regeneration Manifesto: Part 2, The Situation
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Columns: Quake 2 vs Quake 3

I just want to add some thoughts about one of the greatest games ever – just behind pacman and giana sisters. Sure you know what I’m talking about… yeah right it’s our lovely Quake. But in former times there was a real quake concerning the Quake community. I think it was in 1999 when id software released the third part of the Quake trilogy and that date called in the death of the Quake 2 community in many countries. Sure there are still a few ‘crazy oldies’ around the left servers across europe but the times of connecting to a server at 6.00 a.m. and having some fun before school starts are definetely over and gone. So the question was and still is: ‘Why the hell Quake 3 is played more than Quake 2 – is it a better game?’

It is clear that I am answering the question under Quake 2 player view. A Quake 3 player and lover would have given some other answer.
Quake 3… the colored brother of Quake 1. More speed, faster weapon switches, easier to handle railgun and some fast rockets and grenades. That’s all? But are that the reasons to be a good or better game than Quake 2?

Sure it may be funny to hit the opponent 32567 times in a row with the railgun. Sure it makes sense to boost up the starting health to 125 hp’s to avoid ‘spawn-raping’ – but by the fast weapon switch and the every hit problem of the railgun it doesn’t even matter whether I die from the first slug in my face or by the following machine gun shots half a second later. Funny game! Ok, the rocket speed is pretty good and some ppl would say it should be adapted to Quake 2. More speed to Quake 2? Quake 2 is in some ways a very tactical and strategical multiplayer game – even more than its brother Quake 3 or some other genre games like the Half Life mod ‘Counterstrike’. Quake 2’s gameplay is not based on speed only but on good teamplay on nearly all maps. I just remember an interview with an oldie of the world’s Quake 2 scene comparing Quake 2 to Quake 3 – his name: Makaveli. He just started to play Quake 3 and one of his main points was the very bad level design in Quake 3 that kills the teamplay. In his eyes the game had not such a great potential to become a real teamplay multiplayer game only due the lack of cleverness concerning the level design. He said that in an interview with the CPL headadmin in 1999 – and he said that about a ‘only multiplayer game’! So welcome to Quake 3 Arena.


2008-06-01 13:30 
mebe a dead thread last post 2005 har har
i just got q3 gold(q3+q3arena?) about a year ago(2007) and went through single-player dethmath on difficult and enjoyed it - it ran good on 450 p3/128ram/Voodoo3(16mb!)

the reason i like q2 better is:
eraserbot and chaosdm!
also i hv at least a 100 ppm and lots of skins ;-)
last but not least i have grasp(finally) of the console
btw lots of my friends like shogo better than q2 or halflife for dethmatch when we lan battle - "GG"
that is to say nothing of some of the newer titles coming out, i finally hv p4 + 128agp = halflife2!

Edited: 2008-06-01 13:31
2005-12-10 16:39 
I think that q2 is much better at teamplay than q3, because it has much better maps for this kind of playing like q2dm1, when you need to secure the room. Q2 has some kind of MAGIC
2005-05-19 09:17 
its a difficult qestion, who played or playing q3 , he sa than q3 better! And this is game of year , forever q3!
Who play q2 he say than q2 forever!
Too many peoples. too many opions :>
q2 & q3 too great games :p q2 soon dead
2004-06-20 13:57 
when i read all of yours comments i saw sampo's, i think like him(her?), we are a family, q3 isnt so bad...
just that q2 is better (as we think). It doesnt mean that q3 is bad.
we should think that games like CS sucks...
fu CS
fu COD (it has q3 command-structure )
fu BF
fu UT

quake all the way!

btw; what do you all thin about strategic-games, like SC, WC3 ?
2004-06-16 07:22 
oh well dudes Ofcourse q2 all the way, tho im focusing on q3 atm Since my clan aint muchactive, im helping the q3 squad with some serious buttkicking But well, we will be back by autumn ! ph34r!!
2004-06-14 11:29 
why more people is playing q3...?
a person starts playing computergames (like quake)
he(/she) choose between q2 and the "new" q3.
he(/she) doesnt know anything about the games.
ofcourse he choose the "new" game...

and like gravgon said: Q3 is way more "newbie friendly" than Q2.

fu q3.

btw: q2 is faster, not the weapon-switch-time, but the move-speed + doublejumps and the gravity (compare:
q2[q2dm1]: from the edge to underground machinegun.
q3[q3dm6]: from RL to the green armors.
=q3 is slow in the air)

thats what i think :p . good?
2004-06-08 11:22 
Still, Q2 owns j00.

2004-05-28 15:52 
Noon, you are right. Comparing the games this way is lame, we just like Q2 the best, others have different favourites. We cannot change anybody's opinion by writing Q3 suxx. Having a column like this on the main page of a Q2 community's site is a stupid thing, discussing anything like this just embarrasses us. This is no place to argue about which is the best game, we had Gamespy's Titlefight for that.
2004-05-27 11:00 
This is total bs. This game is better than that one and so on. None of you have ever played q3 enough to have an idea what is wrong with q3. For example a former q2 player has sayed that q3 has way deeper tactics in tdm than q2 (and he played in the best q2 team in our country for a pretty long time). but that's not the point. I haven't been playing enough q2 to ever be good at that game and there fore i can't say that q2 is total bs compared to q3. There is no superior game. Every game has it's good sides that will reveal themseves after you have invested enough time in to it. Come on i would feel pretty crappy after writing such a bs story like this column. Everybody knows, that for every one has a game thet they like and therefore it is TEH BESTEST GAMEH IN DA WOORLD. But that doesent mean that other games are crapp. For your information accolade formula game is more deep than q2 ever will be and i can find 10 ppl in a second who will support me on this one. Stop this stupid shit and just accept that every game has their ups and downs. You just happen to like the q2 good sides better than any other game. But to think that "your" game is the hardest, best, deepest, fastest (insert what ever you like here) is plain stupid. It is a very good game just lik other games.
2004-05-05 15:49 
there are just too many differences in order to compare these games on a justice level.

Along with that has already been said I can only agree on the fact that q3 gained more excitment and shit considering it's an easy game to learn.

Also, I'd love to see q2 going more 'pro' once, like q3. Because q2 is just as, if not more, competitive as q3.

However, no question about quake is one of the leading fps games out there, I think the quakers should stop talking shit towards each others game, whether it's qw, q2, q3. We're a fucking family, damit Screw the other ones...
2004-04-25 05:59 
2004-04-24 08:09 
One more thing about speed:
Weapon switch and weapon reload is faster in Q3, but the movement feels faster in Q2 IMO.
2004-04-24 06:40 
Serious Sam has excellent sounds!

I have to add that the you need some skill for the Q2 BFG, on the other hand the Q3 BFG is just a quadded plasma gun with splash damage.
It also sucks that Q3 has a too powerful start weapon, and 125 start health, which makes the game less strategic, there is more aiming skill needed than map knowledge.
Symmetric maps, space maps and jumppads suck.

BTW I don't see the point of writing this article, all Q2-ers think
Q2 is better and all Q3-ers think Q3 is better .
2004-04-18 04:24 
There are still some points i miss for q2 : the S O U N D ! I mean hey, tell me a game that sounds more cooler than q2 ! ammon-pickup,hurt,water,fans,wind´s...ect.pp...especialy hurt in q3 (dunno much about this game ...played it a few times and dropped it rightaway...) is like "piep...piep"....haha wtf ?!
Then of course the weapons but not because of more skill that u need but also because its more realistic to use a chaingun the a lightninggun...(f.e.)
playermodels: a skeleton running around in q2TDM ? in q2CTF ?! i would laugh my ass of some "skateboardbiatches would apear on these maps!
MAPDESIGN! Not only for gameplay (witch is best in q2(movement,fastness...only aircontrol is missing) like the ra2,most of the ctf maps or id´s dm1-8 (yeah DM1 !!!!! show me a better map then this one...played since years ...copyed in to UT,Q3 ect...) but also for the DESIGNE it selfe. i personaly feel HOME when i join q2dm1/ar2map24/20/28/16.... I can play the "sp"+addons just for the MAPDESIGN! there is so much more LOVE for the detaile in it then in q3....though its not bad what id did in q3. But THIS Q3 is "kiddiebubblegumcolorfullunrealistic" (imho ...hehe)
ok thats it. Been playing q1 a little then q2 got out an i just got addicted.Thats all.


btw : pink railgun?! lmao!
2004-04-17 07:40 
I switched from q2 to q3 a long time ago and i said farewell to q2 with pain in the heart but when the scene was near death...

Still q2 will always be my game because:
- it was my first game
- my closest online friends i met in the q2 scene
- one of the best games ever made

But why is q3 better than q2 in many ways:
- it attracts more people
- it has a high sensation factor (like GTV)
- its much easier to learn, still very hard to become good and consistent
- q3 is better for CTF
- q3 is all about firepower (even machinegun can make a difference, not in q2 with a blaster)

why q2 is still THE game:
- teamplay
- gameplay
- scene itself
- weapons & maps

ppl who started out with q3 will never know what q2 was, they will never understand why q2 is THE game. Though, thats what q1 ppl can say also to me....
2004-03-31 13:30 
i love both, but for me the most enjoyable one to watch is q3 (has to do with the big tournaments too ofcourse). But the maps in q2 make the difference to me.
q2 > q3, just slightly tho
2004-03-28 09:39 
I think gravgon got it all :>
2004-03-20 16:58 
Only Q2
2004-03-16 05:39 
q2 the best :]
2004-03-13 05:32 
slonken, if movement is your thing,well...havent you ever heard of cpma?
2004-03-10 03:01 
something that i really miss is every "fps" game (q2 not included) are movement skills. watching a q3 demo could be very boring becouse there is no skills in movement. the only thing you can do in it is to "bunnyjump" nothing more...
i agree with raV "fuck q3!", q2 is by far the most skilled game in the history!
2004-03-04 03:48 
I strongly agree with Dimmo, and mostly with grav too.
Points that haven't been mentioned:
-q3 has no chain which imo takes more skill to use than lg and acts as a fine counterpart to rail in long distance battles
-overuse of jumppads in q3 and too FFA'ish map design in general
-mg too strong for a spawn weapon (well gravgon kinda said it, but this way its more clear)
2004-03-03 15:54 
Nothing more to add, I totally agree with GravGay :p

Except about one thing : Q3 is more fast than q2. and QW is more fast than Q3

In my heart : Q2 > QW > Q3

Even if I play q3ctf.
2004-03-03 14:02 
Q3 is way more "newbie friendly" than Q2
I don't say it's easier to get very good at Q3 than it is to be in Q2
but for a newbie, it's faster to get into Q3 than Q2...

If you look carefully, it's as if all the Q2 weapons were simplified:

- Rail reloads faster
- RL reloads faster and rockets are faster also -> harder to dodge them in Q3 but way more easier to hit with them.
- Plasma : a kind of hyperblaster simplified to the max
- GL: faster, spamming works better than with the Q2 GL which requires a lot of prediction
- LG: same way of aiming than the chain, difference is that it loads fast and there is no spray, where you aim is where it hits.
- Shotgun: reloads pretty fast, reload is what makes the SSG hard to use in Q2.
- MG: replace the blaster and it's even easier to use than the MG in Q2, the spray is more accurate...
- BFG: no comment, missing the opponent with a Q3 bfg is pretty rare

Well just my 2 cents, I think Q3 is more popular than Q2 mainly for that: newbies are more welcome there.

Another thing: for an external spectator, Q2 seems less impressive than Q3. Take a CS player and let him watch a Q3 game: full of hits with all weapons, air rox aren't that hard to make compared to a Q2 air rox, lots of "ding ding" with rails and shaft and it looks faster (although in fact I don't think the gameplay is that fast compared to Q2).

Only the q2 players can realise how hard some rail shots can be or the amount of prediction an air rox or air grenade requires

Conclusion: I play Q2 and it rox, I play Q3 and it's not bad but it doesn't rock
2004-03-02 04:55 
I have played q3tdm and even been in 2.0 playing few cws, but it was boring for me, dont know why.
2004-03-02 04:51 
Something that Q2 has but Q3 not:
doublejumps (and triple etc)
droppable stuff
explosions make more damage
2004-02-29 18:47 
q2 for ever
gameplay >>>> engine
2004-02-26 12:23 
short 1... you should write smth else... :-/
2004-02-26 06:47 
quake2 is one damn good and clever game talking about teamplay and map structure. Its just that every teambased game these days need tactics to win. I really don't think that the map structure in quake2 is greater than the one in quake3... come on! isn't pro-q3dm6 the most genious map ever or at least sure as nice as q2dm1? just saying that one game suck is so out of the time... well i play both quake2ctf and quake3tdm and i think the whole trilogy of quake is the best that has ever happen to me
2004-02-25 05:34 
well q3 isn't as shitty as UT2003 or UT2004... fuck the vehicles!
2004-02-24 19:34 
Thats interesitng. I think that q3 is more played because he is younger that q2 also. Every single month some players are simply quitting playing it and thats natural.
2004-02-23 21:56 
Q2 all the way...
2004-02-23 14:24 
fuck q3

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