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The 2011 Regeneration Manifesto: Part 3, Structure the Season
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The 2011 Regeneration Manifesto: Part 2, The Situation
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Columns: An anonymous view on cheating

In the light of the current debate around cheating (read the comments on dug's wallhack demo) someone approached me on IRC asking if he could write a column about the topic, where he would go a little in depth around cheating and suspicious players in the European q2 scene.

I know it's a little fishy posting columns as an anonymous, so if this turns into just another flamewar I'll remove it. But it's a hot topic, and surely some debate around the issue is needed.


Cheating has been a hot subject in todays quakescene. I haven't personally paid much intrest in cheating and what's going on in there, but now that few players have been caught I can't help think to myself "there might be more cheaters". This column is not to start blaming each other but to make conversation about current situation and what could we do about it. I give you few examples of players that have been caught cheating and few that are suspicious in my mind. A few words about me before i give you some names so that you would understand where I come from: I have played the game since 1998 and I have been on "top" ever since I started. I have tried aimbot once back in the days. Those facts been told, I might not be the best guy to suspect other players and give examples, because I simply don't know how those cheats work. For example what can you see with a wallhack and what not etc. One thing that I do have is experience about players. It's just not possible to start this old game and become good in few months. Everytime that has happened, there has been either cheats involved or former nick. Other thing is that old players just can't get a sudden skillboost without doing something illegal.
Anyway, lets get down to those players who have been caught cheating.

Duugh:
Caught cheating with a wallhack. Duugh says he only tried it for 2-3 games, but I have heard that there are more demos coming from him, where the wh is even more obvious. It remains to see if those other demos ever come out and what will happen in this case. Putka from clan plus is one intresting part of this: He tries to cover up duugh, but it's too obvious what he is doing and that way it brings up a certain question why? Are there more cheaters in clan plus?

Extreme:
Well I will not get into this. More info here: http://q2scene.net/ds/index.php?op=com&id=968

Ricky:
Caught cheating with a wallhack in league games. This happened like 3 years ago? I think ricky has suffered his penalty for being stupid, but you never know. Once a cheater, always a cheater?

Avider/Geromy/Gerppa:
Caught cheating with a wallhack. This Finnish guy got famous by beating Purri in EDL-game. Map was rdm2. I think this guy used his wh for about half an year and became quite a good dueler with it.
He had like one year break from Quake, but is now back in action and this time without wallhack...Or at least that's what you could think about his scores ;)

Well, there's few examples that I can remember. Now to the suspicious ones:

Hirzu:
Has played for a long time, but not really been that good. I mean it doesn't really say much if youre good in Estonia playing on coolhot servers. Now he has joined clan play and is the best one of them? How is that possible? Maybe he got a better connection and played more than before? Hard to say, but to me he is suspicious. Maybe I just dont know the guy well enough and he actually was and is good.

Thuggee:
Same as hirzu, but in smaller aspect. This guy seems to play very good sometimes and then other times it seems like he has never even seen quake. Hard to say what's that all about.

Aone/Insert/Roma:
Hits very good with railgun, sometimes even too good. Tho this just might be a classic example of changing name a lot.

Is it a coincidence that all the suspicious players are from Estonia? I dunno, but give your own thoughts about current situation and what could we do to improve it.

By Anonymous
Comments

TM_
avatar
2007-08-28 12:58 
quwizaz, now u became a cheater too emo everyone is talking about that, cuz in two-five days your rg, cg n all your movement changed very very obviously emo
sashablue
avatar
2007-08-16 08:03 
Does anyone remember the old pipepak.pak from back in the day? Old school cheating lol emo
quwi2a2^xa
avatar
2007-07-25 04:26 
i think who shooting with RG 60 and above proc. i think they are cheaters... for eksample player dont know any jumps but shooting like provi and purri together emo emo
emo die chyter die emo
Cheimera
avatar
2007-05-01 11:11 
I would say every one using the chaingun cheats emo
Thuggee
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2007-03-11 16:33 
omg cheaters everywhere
Target
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2007-01-11 16:54 
Gravgon what your problem man ?


SanQuin
avatar
2007-01-05 02:08 
Now that you started, I'll mention someone I know who was cheating:

draven

He played Q2 about 5 years ago. Mainly Instagib on Dutch servers and he was a noob. At a certain point he used an aimbot, and people saw it. Who cares, would you say...

Well he then left the Q2 scene for Q3, and became a hotshot (and bigmouth) in Q3 and late Q4. I so regret not having those old Q2 demos anymore emo
wision
avatar
2006-12-29 12:53 
nope... using fov is not a cheat in quake2..
for more help visit #edl.q2 @ irc.quakenet.org
alanboro
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2006-12-29 09:54 
Well, I´m not that inside of quake 2 to know all that players. I´ve been playing quake 2 for too lil time, and I´m from argentina (ping high) [my ping is a rare thing, the game runs perfectly, but when I click, it takes like a second to shoot]

i need to learn much more to talk, but in order to learn, first I have to ask. And I have to say, Many times I´ve asked for help, nobody helped me (sometimes they cursed at me). But there were times when some guys did help me, like "wision". And I really apreciate what he did for me.

What I´m trying to say is, before talking I have to know what "nocheat" is and that stuff.

And I start making a question:
If I bind a "FOV 10" using it to have a clrearer shot. Is that a Cheat? (I don´t use it, but I wanna know)

Bye!

PD: As I said, I´m new and I dessesperely need help with other thing. emo
yessuz
avatar
2006-12-27 05:27 
well.. - ok.. that's bout different soft..

But, can you imagine what cheat might be? (Or the question should be: WHAT THING YOU MAY CALL A CHEAT?)

A ping - is a cheat if you play against high pinger
Sound - If you play agains noSound
Mouse - if you play against kayboard player
Custom pak with you ow sounds/skins
Better pc (higher FPS)
OpenGL video card (against 320X240 software player) etc.
even different sensitivity might be called a cheat (just think of that)

In fact, long time ago (maybe 5 yrs) I have seen an article about it. it was quite fun :lol:

Edited: 2006-12-27 05:29
Putka
avatar
2006-12-26 13:03 
Putka from clan plus is one intresting part of this: He tries to cover up duugh, but it's too obvious what he is doing and that way it brings up a certain question why? Are there more cheaters in clan plus?


I have never tried that and i never wont. You might think what u want but i know my truth.
Dimmo
avatar
2006-12-26 10:13 
use r1q2 nick emo
R1CH
avatar
2006-12-25 21:13 
I would be on qnet, except some lamer has taken my nick there.
careem
avatar
2006-12-25 17:38 
bah.. usa players come idle on quakenet.org cos on qnet is almost whole q2scene, #edl.q2, #q2.pl, #euroq2l, #ndml,... emo and i suggest some1 or even r1ch to do r1q2 channel on qnet, some ppl are just 2 lazy to post questions on forum for server/client... and im interested how to dedicate server on linux cos mhs server whenever we try to update it with anticheat it just crush =]

Edited: 2006-12-25 17:46
Element^
avatar
2006-12-25 13:42 
R1CH is easily found on IRC for any anticheat support.

irc.enterthegame.net #q2players
dx.hr
avatar
2006-12-25 11:49 
Guy who wrote this column is obviously an idiot. Top from '98? And hirzu suspicios? Delita is that you?
Ramses
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2006-12-25 10:48 
stupid ! about suspicious ! u can name there every good player,Dami,Purri,Provi,Zorre and much much more ! emo
wision
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2006-12-25 09:11 
if you want some informations about AC why don't you read r1q2 forum or ask smbd on irc (well.. i know you already asked on irc but you could ask sooner..)
Gravgon
avatar
2006-12-25 09:06 
Digital > personnally I'm just uninformed about newest anticheats. I've been told that r1q2 is way better nowadays and that this anticheat.dll thing can stop many hacks.

Once we're fully informed about those new protections, the leagues will more than likely enforce only updated clients like r1q2.
empitrii
avatar
2006-12-25 08:56 
i can say that i have a lot of times seen hirz playing irl and i can say that he have never cheat. He dont play only q2 very well, he have also play several others game very well(like cs). Dont say that hirz is some kind of cheater, plz!
sovet
avatar
2006-12-25 08:32 
Well, as an Estonian player I will be speaking about Estonian players, namely Hirzu, Thuggee and Roma.

A) What do you know about Hirzu? I can tell that much, that he had about a year ago really crappy PC and got new one. Ever since he played quite a lot and getting A LOT OF experience playing within team .ee squad, 3M with old crew etc. Now, if you have potential, wits and guts and experience, you just might become really good. Besides, once i saw him playing on the internet a teamplay games, while standing behind him ( so there could be no cheating ) - and he still rocked. emo It's almost liks Scooby issue. Bottom line, he plays really smart, as Gravgon mentioned. Spectating some of his games, you can see, that he is thinking every step ahead...

B) Thuggee - Well, there was a lot of suspicion about this player for myself as well. But this kid practically lived in Q2 one period of time, playing 24-7 jumps, insta etc. And became pretty good average player, where one day you can actually own and the other day not - just like any other would be. Same for me, one day i can almost outaim Damiah and the second barely go versus any average player ( you name it ). P.S. He owns div3, if you put him versus Play, he'd be raped. So what so special about this?

C) Roma - I know this guy for quite a long period of time, dueling all the time with him. I know his tactic in depth. He is an excellent dueller, but his main skill is still railgun. Without railgun he is quite good, but with railgun he is one bad ass. For me it is chaingun. Careem spoke, that having cg acc over 20% is hard, rofl, I get practically every 3rd game 20-25%. For ROma its railgun 40-60% every game. Or maybe old school player from .ee - Reaper, who had excellent railgun too?

Tbh, silly accusations.
Digital
avatar
2006-12-25 08:31 
Agreed with Gravgon and thaigo on insta-accuracies. I've played div1 iTDM in CyC since 2000 and rarely I got +35% accuracy. My usual would prolly be around 20-25% so pretty much as thaigo put it. Although I shoot a lot of "let's hope"-rails to corners which lowers accuracy a tad but still, 30-40% in iTDM is very good...

About updating majority of servers with proper anticheat: Even though I would be glad to see this happen I doubt we'll get there as long as cups/leagues allow clients like NoCheat. R1CH has the tools but imo the q2scene and leagueadmins have the ball.

Edited: 2006-12-25 09:00
careem
avatar
2006-12-25 07:30 
emo

Edited: 2006-12-25 08:02
slonken
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2006-12-25 07:26 
all estonians are best on internet...would be fun to see them play on LAN emo
Gerdt
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2006-12-25 05:51 
Will update telenet.

@careem: bollox
eXecutor
avatar
2006-12-25 05:06 
"Ricky:
Caught cheating with a wallhack in league games. This happened like 3 years ago? I think ricky has suffered his penalty for being stupid, but you never know. Once a cheater, always a cheater? "
thats wrong dude.. he's never use radeons and gg bug in league game.. it was in pcw with mhs[?] i don't remember but it was some weak german clan emo, but he was kicked from plq2/eq2l anyway.. even if he had all demos. he got lesson, next cb he uploaded all demos, even if we lose with some clan 60 to 200 emo.


anyway here in Poland we got antricheat protected servers, from no one we had couple stupid wallhackers, and boters.. the worst was ag3 stupid kiddo who use that in leagues.. he's of course banned.

i think admins should update theyr server to anticheat protected servers.. playing with r1q2/aprq2 isnt bad.. if We [Pol] stoped use nc shit, all can stop it.. we just really rather to play fun [ without stupid kidds, who would like to be better then they are ].
mhs, telenet could be updated, *.se, *.fi ? couple *.nl servers ? and force league games servers to be anticheat like We in *.pl did.
anticheat protected servers are really almost 98% protected.. the 1% is for 'newest' wh/zbots.. but R1ch block them really fast, like couple months ago.. ag3 got newest wh, r1ch block it in 2-3mins.. the next 1% is for stupid ati drivers bug.. i reported that for him, so i think he can block it too..
wision
avatar
2006-12-25 03:33 
haha... i wanna see that careem's 40% accuracy in a game against lbp/rmr/stheno/cyc/(write here any other high skilled clan..).
and btw... if you have some evidence about other cheaters why don't you show it to other players?

what can we do about cheaters? well.. we can secure servers with r1ch's anticheat, but you need to set it up properly, but i'm sure that admins don't know how...
now 90% of admins don't even know about that anticheat, so i doubt there will be something done against cheaters..

Edited: 2006-12-25 03:46
thaigo
avatar
2006-12-25 00:20 
I doubt that Careem.
I think 20-25% rail is normal in instagib and over 30% is very good.
careem
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2006-12-24 21:32 
grav i have always +40 rail with 20ping on insta

Edited: 2006-12-24 21:32
Gravgon
avatar
2006-12-24 21:27 
Hmm, about players who suddenly have a "skillboost". I'm talking about hirzuh here particularly.

I've watched several of his demos and I've never found anything special besides the fact that he plays very well and very smart. There is no smarthax emo
His aim is good but nowadays everyone can hit a lot with rail and chain.
This sudden "boost" could be explain if, for instance, he played with a very bad computer in the past and now he has a good one.

Changing your hardware can affect your gameplay a lot. Especially mouse+mousepad.

Now there are indeed players who aren't that smart at all, not very experienced and who cant play with the rocket launcher but who constantly gets insane rail and chain accuracies.

I'm no cheat expert but I know there are bots that allow you to use a low field of action. So if you have an average aim, you can get an insane aim and it'll be very hard to detect by watching demos.

One of my suspect for that is an insta player called Target. He already got kickbanned by q2admin on XS4ALL for using a bot and according to the admin of that server, it's impossible to get kicked for that if you don't connect to the server through an outside program.
Besides, that guy gets steady accuracies of 40% in every single insta game (40% in insta is a lot).
careem
avatar
2006-12-24 20:41 
yeh.. there are mising few players..


- siwy - Poland

console: &%trf rbkck
.disconnect.any.bots.
"c0" is "rbkck"
[BTF]Rogal was railed by [BTF]reaver **
Teammate Kill **
+CAREEM^^: i cant see shit
ewho was railed by [BTF]reaver
b1g was railed by ewho ** Teammate Kill **
+CAREEM^^ was blown away by b1g's super shotgun
[BTF]Rogal was railed by ewho
[BTF]reaver was railed by ewho
+CAREEM^^: siwy use bots?
[BTF]reaver: lol
WallFly[BZZZ]: he had them all
Time up. Vote failed. No changes made.
[BTF]Rogal was railed by ewho
+CAREEM^^: lol

[BTF]reaver joined team "Hometeam"
[BTF]reaver entered the game (clients = 4)
+CAREEM^^: .tell me names wallfly
b1g: emo
+CAREEM^^ joined team "Visitors"
+CAREEM^^ entered the game (clients = 5)
Stopped demo, recorded 28296 bytes.
WallFly[BZZZ]: he had frkq2 and open.hell


- Ag3 [xxx] - Poland

foV|sober: bo mi sie we lbie kreci
xxx: i no cheats
xxx: omg u know spiked models
xxx: ?
console: xxx remove cheats or be
banned
need1: +E
need1: +E
xxx: omg
xxx: idota
foV|sober ate need1's rocket
xxx: moment
xxx was cut in half by +CAREEM^^'s
chaingun
xxx: i deleted spiked models
xxx: emo
xxx: in pak
xxx removed from team "fools"
xxx wimped out and left. (clients = 3)

(+CAREEM^^): hahaha
foV|sober: hehee


- Abc

Abc was busted tho, on EDC! BTF server scanned his pc, but he wasnt using cheats he had them only on his pc.


(kolt02) he really had some shit ?
(CAREEM^^02) he is using those hacks, yes emo
(kolt02) he was cought with aimbot earlier
(kolt02) on polish servers
(kolt02) so he is prolly cheating
(kolt02) we had some demos
(kolt02) when he has aimbot
(kolt02) so now its possible that he has some other shit
(CAREEM^^02) hmm
(kolt02) just ask some polish players about it
(kolt02) whole polish scene knows that
(kolt02) emo
(kolt02) didnt know that stanlej = abc
(kolt02) now i know
(kolt02) hehe
(CAREEM^^02) maybe reason why he faked his nick
(CAREEM^^02) hehe
(kolt02) its so obvious

-yuka

yuka [slovenia], yuka is now inactive since we cought him cheating.. He used renamed ratbot as r1q2.

Btw, .lpb. or whatever they are they are always the best on insta leagues, but the thing is i never ever saw them playing not offical game only offical wich it means 5-10games per year, each game is 15mins.. 10games per year and be the best??!?!



Edited: 2006-12-24 21:12
careem
avatar
2006-12-24 19:48 
for me is Aone very suspicious.
sean
avatar
2006-12-24 19:26 
wtf is ditzu on the list? emo emo
zdufs
avatar
2006-12-24 18:31 
balkan > estonia

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